oh yeah, i'll fully agree that leona does too much.... yelling, to be frank, but she's a decent singer and she definetly has SOME talent.


Never thought i'd see the day were im practically comparing Leona to The Vines. :|

Yes, and it's most likely a certain shady talent involving record companies and fellatio.

tbh, i can't even remember the argument (on the Leona front) now. i apologise.

So, you brought up this comment: "there's a reason bands like the vines haven't exactly made it huge and Muse have." only to say you don't think The Vines are worse than Muse, but there's *a reason* Muse are bigger? So basically you're saying that Muse are just as good, or perhaps even worse than The Vines, but still managed to be bigger and quality has very little to do with it? Thank you, that's what I've been saying.

"what IS the figurative language?" Want to guess who said that?
Also, if you did (and passed) GCSE in English lit, you *should* know how to apply your knowledge of figurative language on actual examples.
I can't *explain* figurative language in the song, I could interpret it. But hey, you're faaaar more qualified than me, with your GCSE and all. But, since you asked ... I generally see MerryGoRound as a description of Craig's life - running into people he wanted, then running into people he did not, and he sees it's always the same thing, revolving and recycling. It's most certainly not a literal merry-go-round.

Merrygoround is symbolic for the endless cycle of running into people you want and don't want to in life and not getting what you expect.

I should major in this.

Edit: Damn, MK already got it.

I merely mean that i prefered the vines for a while (mainly because of the fact that i know of craig's problems and understood the songs a little more than perhaps some random person who doesn't know the vines at all) and felt more of a connection. Like you said, it's opinion, i liked the vines more for a while, but not meaning Muse are worse. Muse are far better (M&L). The Vines aren't going to sell out a sweet shop, let alone Wembley Stadium (to which i went, i might add )

"what IS the figurative language?" If i wanted to know what figurative language was, i'd have said "what IS figurative language?" (MINUS the THE)

and thank you for clearing up what merrygoround actually means. But now that i know, i can officially say it's yet another song about Craig's life that goes in the same dull pattern. One might say it's similar to Dope Train (figuratively speaking of course. )




EDIT: i ask my friend to listen to the new album so i had an unbiased opinion and her review is on her livejournal:
http://retard-xcore.livejournal.com/2437.html
EDITEDIT: i don't have my GCSEs until next thurs, so i am fully prepared to admit a mistake at the moment. >:D

wow, craig really couldn't think of anything else to write about?

but thank you for clearing that up. You can have my GCSE when i get it



tbqh, i listened to the first bit of merrygoround and gave up. I skipped the song because i couldn't be bothered listening. So maybe i wasn't seeing what everyone else is seeing. Maybe i should give it another chance... I'll just reply to all you lot flaming me when im out of my coma.

Don't contradict yourself so much and we might actually get somewhere.
And AGAIN, just because Muse sold out the Wembley gig, it doesn't mean they're automatically better than The Vines. It really isn't a difficult concept. A sold-out gig=/=quality. Popularity=/=quality.


Uh, yes, Craig's songs often talk about what he's been through. And that is a sign that he's amateurish and childish, AMIRITE? God forbid he would actually be honest about his emotions and past or talk about *gasp* himself and let it on the radio!

Your friend should write for NME.

Everyone contradicts themselves, even you.
In your mind popularity or a sold out gig doesn't equal quality, but there is a reason they are sold out and popular. If their music is good, people will like them. If their music is bad, people wont. It's pretty simple.
Apparently we're just suckers who'll munch down anything His holiness will throw at us.
Well, i'm sorry, but i'll move on tar. I'll say this now and i don't care if you say im contradicting myself, Muse ARE better. Generally. They're 100% better.
I still love the vines, im just really, really, really disappointed. I can only hope for a better next album.


AND BTW, my friend said, and i quote: "I think myself above writing for that rag.
I don't think it's fit to wipe my arse on, let alone contribute my incredible writing style to."
She thinks highly of herself, our Lois.

It might not necessarily be about only his life, maybe the reason he's singing "Here we go 'round..." is like saying we're all in this together.



I wouldn't take that review any more seriously than a review gushing over how amazing the album was, it's all opinion-based, and obviously she didn't like the album. I honestly don't see the point in arguing over whether the album is good or not, nobody's going to change their opinion of it. Either you like it or you don't...I'm going to be honest and say there are a few songs I don't really care for, but the rest I really love...I'd say I'm a pretty big fan of The Vines, and that wasn't being biased at all!

Exactly. see, now i agree with that.
It's my humble opinion that the album in general is poor, even though i do like.... 4 songs. Fair enough if you like it

You do it too often.

And Coldplay are the best band in the world, right?
It doesn't matter that you're on a small label that can't afford extensive promotion, or that you have had problems in your life that made it impossible for you to get your music to a wider audience, right? Similarly, it doesn't matter if your album is full of homophobic remarks and none of your songs is written by you as long as you've sold out a stadium and your single reaches #1? Oh, wow.

I've done it once, big time. in which i tried to say i was right, you were wrong and then i said allow me to rephrase. i apologise profusely for that.

Did you read what i said? If the music is good, they gain more fans. Coldplay are a decent band, which is why they have a large following. Music is either bad or it's not. If you got me playing a keyboard and singing really badly, thinking i was good, no one will listen, therefore i wont be popular. If i was singing well, and playing guitar amazingly, people would WANT to listen, therefore i would be popular.
No one wants to listen to bad music. Which i believe is why no one outside of the forum seems to like Melodia very much.

Did you read what you said? You're basically saying that bands that sell less albums are worse than those that sell more and have bigger fanbases.
I want to reply sensibly, but this is just the biggest portion of ignorance I had the pleasure of reading in quite a while. Have you ever heard of the phenomenon called 'promotion'?

I wouldn't say that just because people outside of the forum don't like this album, the music's bad. Maybe they just don't like this style of music...Like your friend seemed to like Coheed and Cambria and compared them to The Vines (which I thought was silly, since they're obviously different styles of music). Anyway I don't like Coheed and Cambria, but that doesn't mean their music is bad...just not my style.

There's like, two different convos going on here, sorry.

ho noes, not promotion!
Im fully aware of what i said. Im not ignorant, you're ignorant if anything.
Look, if a band is good enough, they'll get noticed, if they're abit...nyuuuuh then they might just scrape through. If they're bad, no one will care.

If a band is good, it will have fans.
If it's not, it wont.

If a person has listened to melodia and perhaps though, eurgh dont like it, they may not bother again. If more than that person has (hundreds, thousands maybe), the band has obviously got something wrong.
The music creates the fans, the fans don't create the music.
Look, im apparently talking in an alien language to you, so lets drop it.
You wont make me love the album like i loved the last 3, and i certainly am not going to make you dislike the album... besides, the band needs all the fans they can get.
so yes, i don't like it very much, you do. end of discussion.

Oh no, i didn't mean the album is bad, just disappointing. we know what the band is capable of, im just abit shocked. (AND PROBABLY CRANKY, ITS WAAAAY AFTER MY BEDTIME )

I agree with you, despite how i may have contradicted myself . If you don't like something, you don't.

I think this forum needs like a chat room or something, it's confusing meeee!

I would actually take the time to reply if I weren't too busy buying Michael Jackson's Thriller, the best album in the history of music. Because it's sold 108 million copies and quality of music is measured in the dime you earn with it, amirite.

I think peoples problem with the review is not that it doesnt like the album, its that it doesnt actuallt really review the album. its just a bashing against the Vines. For about 3/4 of it they talk about everything but the album, which makes people think this wasnt a review of the album, but a disgruntled journalist blazing The Vines for their own personal reasons.

If the review had been an article which focused urely on the album and its songs and given reason for why they felt the album was poor by criticising and analyzing the songs, I dont think peolple would have a problem!

you wouldn't earn the dime if you weren't a good musician, amirite.


HEY i did say i didn't agree with everything NME said and i'll tell you the honest truth now, i've stopped my NME subscription because it's just gone down the nick.
I do agree with what they say about some of the songs though.

Apparently.
That's how fantasy world works - everyone is rewarded for their efforts and according to their talent(s), everyone is happy and there's joy popping out of the flowerpots.
Real world works on different terms.

you really aren't seeing what i'm getting at are you?
I don't even know how we got to this point...

People wont listen to a band that is really bad (nor will they listen to one if they don't like the style, admittedly).
It'd be like someone saying "I like Chico". It's one person, and Chico is really, very bad, which is the very reason why only one person says they like him.

They have to be good to get anywhere, otherwise anyone could be a popstar.... even more frightening... i could be a popstar
c'mon im trying to lighten the mood here.

Interesting logic. So, what you're saying is, if a band is famous, they must be good? That's wildly untrue though...I don't get how you could even think that. And for the record.....Coldplay is probably the most boring band on the planet. Next to U2

No, im saying if a band is good, chances are they'll be famous.* someone will discover them (mainly to make money out of them) but they'll be discovered if they're good enough and work hard enough.
and yes, coldplay are rather dull, but still.

*Of course there are poor famous bands, but the good bands will come through.

I'm nearly 100 % sure there are many many bands, singers, actors, etc. out there with talent that exceeds the currently famous that will never be discovered. Not because they don't have talent, and not because they don't work hard, but because they just weren't at the right place at the right time.

oh yeah, i get what you mean... it's just... The Vines ARE at the right place now, they just need to raise the bar abit. I just think Melodia wont do them many favours is all.
FFS, they've got a record company and fans and everything, and they HAVE the talent, i just feel they've done badly by themselves with Melodia.

believe me, chances are the album will grow on me and i'll regret what i've said here, but its rare for a vines album to have to grow on me. Im usually glued to it...

And they won't listen to music they've never heard. Logical enough, right? This is when promotion comes into play. An mediocre artist gets picked up, signed with a label, the label gets them on the radio, organises gigs, prints notebooks with their logo on them, all that crap, people sort of like what they hear, buy albums and merchandise, loads of money, label is happy, artist is happy, big chunk of good karma.
Or, alternatively, and more likely, an artist with a bunch of potential has very little idea about business, gets signed to the first small, utterly broke label that makes an offer, gets low rotation on the radio, not enough people get to hear the material, the label's investment turns out to bring no profit at all, the artist gets dropped and ends up playing club nights at a local bar for food.
Of course the first person is a much better musician, what was I thinking.

yeah, i did say it depends on the listeners and circulation.
I do agree with you (strange as it may seem), i just... really don't know how we got here.... lol
Look, i'll repeat this again: believe me, chances are the album will grow on me and i'll regret what i've said here, but its rare for a vines album to have to grow on me. Im usually glued to it...
Bear in mind, im very tired right now, and very cranky.

I think it might depend on the recognition that artist gets, whether it's from promotion, touring, whatever. The more recognition, the more people will either like or dislike them...Even though The Vines don't seem that popular, they have a rather large fanbase it seems. Even though they don't tour that much, the shows they do sell pretty good.



Disappointing...that's understandable, it didn't meet your personal expectations. Good vibes to you, and GET SOME SLEEP!

ahaa thank you.
i need toast tbh.

I feel like the Vines are not in a good position to be famous at all. They had their fame...and it slipped through their fingers. I know there are cases of "comebacks" and stuff but it's all pretty rare. They kinda went their own way and the general public either 1. didn't KNOW about it or 2. didn't like it. I dont think that means they're not a good band anymore...it's just the whole aussie rock thing is over now. You know fame is...trends and cycles and stuff. I feel bad for them but at the same time I'm pretty sure Craig will do a lot better without fame

Skipping some pages backwards, I might say I disagree with this which you have said. Things do not necessarily work that way - "if a band is good, it will have fans. If it's not, it won't". Being massive, or having many fans doesn't make the quality of the music better. Look, for example, Britney Spears, or Paris Hilton. They both have many followers, and still the music they have done is purely commercial and shallow, in my opinion.
I will not try to persuade you about your opinion on Melodia, for I understand and respect your point of view. I would say I'm not insanely fond of the album as I am of Highly Evolved, for instance, but I think the songs are great and they have done a really good job. Orange Amber is one of my favourites, as well as Kara Jayne. And the lyrics to Scream are excellent (or maybe it's just because I can relate to them).
As regards the article, I surely agree with all those comments who state it was a non-constructive, biased bashing with no arguments. A critical article, especially from a well-known magazine supposed to be professional, is meant to evaluate, not just talk unfounded, groundless shit.


(Ok. Please excuse me for my english. I haven't practised for a very long time, and my new teacher is an asshole. She spells "cusual" instead of "casual", and says "puberty" instead of "poverty". Yes, and I've got to sit for my IGCSE's in less than three months. I'm dead-woman )

c'mon then, let's have them.

puff the magic dragon anyone?

Laurenilla- I'll decipher this one for you as you seem to have struggled- it's not ACTUALLY about a magic dragon. It's a reference to the phrase 'chasing the dragon' which is a euphemism for smoking crack.

... and I never thought I'd see the day where you'd compare the Vines to Muse.

also- on the success = quality point. Mamma mia anyone?

...right now that I've read everything and picked out some of the hilarious bits...

can I just say that your friend's review is laughable- I'm actually sat here thinking that her opinions are remarkably similar to yours and some of the things posted on this thread. She also clearly didn't attend the classes on figurative language either and if she is expecting her GCSE grades next week I'd say she's in for disappointment. Her lyrical analysis is dreadful- the paragraph about Manger illustrates my point perfectly: offending Christianity- seriously, subject matter does not a bad song make. Her argument shows quite an immature mindset in my opinion. Comparing Coheed and Cambria to the Vines is just the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. The Vines are about psychadelia, harmonies, spiralling melodies contrasted with grungy rock with catchy pop hooks. Coheed and Cambria- like she said- riff heavy etc- the two just aren't about the same song writing style at all. Absolute drivel. The fact that she couldn't manage to review the whole album says just about everything I think.

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of people who may not like this album, and that is fair enough. But if they are going to dislike it, I would hope that it is for a valid reason- which is exactly what the NME review does not give. In some kid's blog you expect shitty writing like that, but in NME you at least expect valid arguments which are based on the music and not on extraneous irrelevancies.

However, it is clear that there are plenty of people out there who do like this album- there are plenty on here, plenty on DTI, plenty who have showed up to their recent shows and plenty who have complained about the review on NME (see the comments at the bottom of this page: http://www.nme.com/reviews/the-vines/9836) who seem to like and defend the vines. Not to mention many positive reviews and loads of other newspapers and music magazines.

Melodia is a progression from the other albums- I think it shows a more mature subject matter than Vision Valley in many instances, though it still stays true to some of the catchy numbers people expect of the Vines. As was made obvious when the Vines covered 4Eva, Craig has adopted an altered approach to recording vocal harmonies, song progression and depth- how NME didn't adore She is Gone is a mystery to me. Craig's voice has improved. I think Melodia exhibits a success in further drawing the bands influences together more coherently, while at the same time adding that special 'vinseyness' that we've all come to love. It's this aspect of Melodia which makes the greatest advance in their sound.

Vision Valley was crap compared to Melodia. You want to talk about simple and ameturish, you might wanna relisten to VV.




Firstly, at least a quarter of the people here hated VV. Second, both the promotion competition and the book started before VV was even released. And I've seen one person complaining. Feel free to point me to more.



Sunshine? In The Jungle? Mary Jane? Ain't no Room? She to Me? Candy Daze? DLTTR?

Hey and Orange Amber are the only ones off the top of my head that start with the song title. Might want to rethink your definition of "a fair few".




"I'm gonna get free...ride into the sun...she never loved me...why should anyone?"
"I really, ruley do"
"I don't know how the future started, we might as well all be retarded"

The Vines have never been ones for "poetic" songs. They are very simple, and that's often the genius of them.




I truley do not see how, except they are the same style (omg) and they both have "get" in the title (OMFG!!!)





No-one over the age of 12 takes a song at face value. I hope you're not expecting much for your lit results if you can't figure out that MerryGoRound isn't about a a fucking theme park ride.



Um, no. She squeaks and does (bad) vocal gymnastics. I have yet to see proof of her singing "ability." She's even worse live.



Except, of course, that they do sell out all their venues, and quite quickly. As has been said, popularity is not a measure of talent.




All I have to say to the fact that you continue to assert that is fucking LOL.



tbh and tbf if you want to get your point across, don't make half assed arguments.

tbqh.

I would say Melodia is a move in another direction for The Vines.
Its a progression in the terms of the energy that was lost on Vision Valley, but a progression in "maturity" is a bit of a joke.

The lyrics are what really let down this album.
He's a rocker is a clear example of this.

Lyrics on HE and WD are quite poetic in places Autumn Shade, Homesick, Winning Days...

None of that is one this album, its all straight to point and not at all interesting.

I think Craig has become too concerned with writing hooks and pop songs.
The rawness onces found on HE seems to be gone, I think the problem for The Vines is they don't quite realise why they became big! I think Craig genuinely thinks Melodia's bubblgum squeeky clean pop/rock is what got them their fame. When it was actually more the opposite!

no way man, it's certainly a progression from Vision Valley. I think the songs somehow sound a lot more sincere. She is Gone, A Girl I knew being prime examples. There's no rhyming for the sake of it or sentences that lead nowhere a la 'three ain't a pair.' Simple doesn't necessarily mean bad. The lyrics are more direct and for that reason I see it as a progression.

I couldn't have said that better.

Opposed to lyrics like " Once there was a young man, no one could understand"

"Marraige was a thign we had,
hurt so much it made me mad"


"wishing i could have her back,
feeling like a heart attack"

as for the lyrics being direct.... theyre too direct. the magic of the lyrics are gone, theres no layers to dig into, nothing to interpret.

I would say the lyrics are quite childlike in the way theyre soo direct, they don't really convey any deep emotions, just simple obvious ones whic rhyme nicely.

Am I the only one that isn't into the Vines for the lyrics, really? There are some clever lines here and there that I adore, but for the most part, I don't notice them, or think less of a song if lyrics are incomprehensible/filler/stupid/simple. The melodies and arrangements are so fucking good to me, they don't matter. They're just something to sing along to.

Having gotten into Japanese/Korean music the past few years, I've learned that knowing what the singer is singing about, in the end, isn't all that important. It's the hook, the melody, the actual sound of the song that ultimately appeals to me. I more appreciate the physical sound of the words than the words themselves...and I think that's how Craig works a lot of the time. He uses certain words for the rhythm, for the way they are pronounced. Hey, it explains his lack of proper grammar at times and made up words.

I know there's feeling behind the songs - I know what he's singing about is important to him, and that's all that matters. He doesn't have to be a lyrical genius to prove his point to me. I can feel it in the music, in his forcefulness.

Edit to add: I complete understand what he is talking about in She is Gone, and most of the song is him going "ooo." I think that speaks for itself. Just because he's going "ooo" a bunch of times doesn't mean he isn't saying something very serious and real...at least it is to me.

YES

Oh, wow.

Look, I hate to say it, but I didn't like the album either. I'm not going to make myself like it right now, because it probably will grow on me over time. It's just not that great. That is my opinion.
The NME reviewer had his opinion too, obviously he had some problem with the band, and I don't think he should have built the "official" review around it.
I love The Vines, I do, but this album was just a dissapointment to me. The songs are catchy, but at the same time they don't stick in my head the way their songs on HE and WD do. Their two newest albums have both dissapointed me (with an exception for a couple of songs on VV), and I'm sure they've dissapointed a few people.

Don't flame Laurenilla for expressing her opinions on the album. Sure, they were harsh at times and all the comparing was a bit unneccesary, but what's the point in flaming someone for it? Ursa, I'm not blaming you for anything, you love the band and sure, if someone insults them, you'll get annoyed. I was annoyed at the review as well. But still.

Oh, and the thing about talent = success.. I have to say I disagree. When "artists" are constantly promoted and reviewers are saying they're the greatest new artist in the world, people will go out and buy the album or single to see if it's good or not. Obviously these people haven't heard of a little thing called Limewire.
Britney Spears got successful on her first song because it was promoted. She was hyped up beyond belief, and she got sucessful on minimal singing talent and songwriters putting songs in front of her, her manager saying "sing it, it'll be huge". Now this might not have happened, but it happens with a lot of singers. Basically, success =/= talent.

they aren't quite what i meant.....

I see He's a rocker as one of the weakest songs on the album, but I think the way to look at it lyrically is that it is a progression for Craig- it's not often he writes lyrics in the third person. TV Pro is the only other one I can think of....

What I meant by Melodia having better lyrics is that for the majority they make sense as a coherent whole. I really like A Girl I Knew for a lot of reasons, part of that is that the lyrics - as simple as they may be- do convey a real sense of pain about a relationship. There's nothing wrong with rhyming, it's rhyming two lines just for the sake of it with the end result that they don't make sense. "This ain't the real world.... People are full of hurl" "Two of a kind, Three ain't a pair." The lyrics on Melodia tell a lot more of a story than anything since Highly Evolved.

Yes! I love that there are so few 'irritating' words/letters that would interrupt the flow of the songs. That takes more skill than you'd imagine, really.


I'm sorry if that came across as attacking *her*, it really wasn't meant that way. I have no problem with Lauren whatsoever, she's quite nice and I certainly wasn't out to get her. It's just that, if you say naive stuff like she has, you can't exactly expect you'll get a round of applause for it. I don't mean her opinion, she can dislike the album as much as she wants, but failing to see where the NME review was biased, that MerryGoRound is not about an actual merry-go-round, and that there's more to success than quality (and vice versa) is just mind-boggling. I know it probably came across too harsh, but that 'success v. quality' thing is the one thing that infuriates me to no end.

I would rate WD lyrics over melodia... maybe even VV. I do get what you mean, VV did have some lyrics which felt were chucked in just for the sake of it.

But HE's lyrics were clever in the way that it was like twisted poetry, metahors were used a lot throughout to describe stuff.

I kind of imagine if Craig wrote another Mary jane for melodia it would have sounded more like "I smoke weed, its reallt good, i feel freed, when I smoke weed", straight to the point without any real thought about it.
I dont think songs should be straight to the point, if i wanted straight to the point I would read an article...
Im not saying rhyming is bad, its good, you need it for flow... but it just feels like the whole lyrics bit was rushed, because such obvious words and sentences are used to keep it rhyming.
Some fo the lyrics are on par with rhyming like "His name was Ted, he really liked his bed" , it rhymes, its straight to the point.... and its crap!



Someone earlier said that they didnt need the emotion in the lyrics cause they could hear it in his voice...
thats another thing I think was lost on Melodia.. though thats not The Vines fault. The shiny production by Rob, I felt really lost the power in Craigs voice. Winning Days and HE had such power and emotion in his voice!

It is dissapointing; their new record and this whole Craig show.
I've had Melodia for nearly 2 months and is quickly fading from my memory.

Craig maturing is great and all, but there are still 3 other members of The Vines that I think we could hear a lot more from, though they have yet to be seen. I'm glad the back trio rhythmically holds it down solid, and they have their familiar little niche in every song, but they aren't enticing me nor surprising me with the way they play at all. They may be too shy, they might just want to stay average and not push themselves to any new depths or make interesting music... at this stage maybe they'd prefer to remain in the shallow end of the pool... I don't know, but they could write and play more interesting parts once in awhile. Depth can be nice, experimenting can be nice. I assumed they were ultra-professional and they could handle it, but all we got was JAMOLA? What a waste.

Music should be a sweeping soundscape.

The album was full of promise but its too dull too wanna spend time listening to it. I will anticipate their next release and welcome it open arms as i still love the guys, but yeah im not gonna listen to melodia anymore.

See, they're too straight to the point to you, but there was a discussion about whether MerryGoRound was about an actual merry-go-round or not a few pages back.

Not really, no.