How do you feel about abortion?

LOL oh bb you just trying to start the ~dramz~

I'm pro-choice.

I can't place a finger on it, but something about this thread makes me feel that there's been one abortion too little in the world.

I'm pro-choice, by the way. The less the world procreates, the better.

I'm pro-life. Obviously there's circumstances where it could be seen as acceptable (condoms breaking; etc), but that still wouldn't necessarily make it "right". A mother shouldn't be granted an abortion because she got too drunk one night and forget to use protection or that she "isn't quite ready for a child yet". She should've thought about that before hand. I just think the system is abused these days by irresponsible adolescent girls who see it as the "last option".

Yes, but is those girls bringing a child into the world that they don't want/can't afford/can't look after the better option? I don't think so.

Obviously, I'm pro-choice. It's one of the few things I feel quite strongly about.

Abused in what way? They're neither the age group with the biggest percentage of abortions nor are they more likely to have an abortion performed because they weren't protected than any other age group - at least in this corner of the world.

Adoption?



Abused in what way? Didn't I just talk about how some girls see an abortion as a last option? I would consider that to be an abuse of the system. I don't think it was meant for that.

im pro-choice
i watched an interesting video once where they went up to people who are against abortions and asked them if abortion was illegal what would be the punishment for having one

Not so much. There aren't enough people (at least in Australia) willing to adopt these days, and if someone is willing to adopt they'd rather get a kid from somewhere ~exotic~ or from a "disadvantaged" country.

It would help if they let gay people adopt, but that's a whole other chapter of stupid.

Yes, but you talked about 'irresponsible adolescent girls'. While I'm aware that abortion is stereotypically seen as a means of a young stupid lass to get rid of a pregnancy after a ~wild night, that's hardly the case and I think it's unfair to point fingers at them when they share very similar statistics with every other age group. What makes you think middle-aged women won't abuse the system?
Also, as far as I'm aware, the medical codex states that a doctor can deny the patient the right to abortion if they feel the patient is abusing the right as long as they appoint her to another doctor for a second opinion.

Actually, many abortions are performed on older women who already have children.
"Women between the ages of 15 and 19 account for about 19% of all abortions; women 20 to 24 account for another 33%; and about 25% of abortions are obtained by women who are 30 or older." I'd say in the past couple years the 15-19 gap percentage is even lower because of the age-of-consent laws in many states.

And half of women who get abortions report using contraception.

And for this supposed group of adolescent girls who are abusing the system, they are obviously pretty dense to risk a procedure so many times...not to mention pretty dense for getting in that position so many times to begin with. You really want them breeding?

Stop generalizing and learn your facts.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html


These are all American statistics FYI...sorry Aussies.

And no, you're not pro-life. You're anti-choice.

The percentage in my country is below 8%, I believe. Also, the percentage of women that had an abortion after already giving birth to two children is slightly higher than that of women that hadn't given birth before, so it really isn't about 'not being ready for a child' or irresponsibility.

ETA: Stats for England&Wales for 2004, to jump across the map a bit: the under-16 abortion rate was 3.7 compared with 3.9 in 2003. The under-18 rate was 17.8 compared with 18.2 in 2003.

More facts:

88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.

47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

· 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.

· 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.

· 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.

· 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)

· 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.

· 7.9% of women want no (more) children.

· 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.

· 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

*

54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
*

90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
*

8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
*

It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.

http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil...on_abortion.htm

I'd do a search for Aus. statistics, but the last time I googled abortion all I got was christian fundamentalist bullshit. I don't have the patience to sift through that today.

Try Office for Statistics or Ministry/Office of Medicine/Public Health or something? I got my stats off the country's Institute for Protection of Health page.

Seriously...when you google "abortion statistics," everything is from anti-choice websites. The only way I got what I got was by specifically googling "pro-choice abortion statistics."

Ah, thanks. So the reason I've had trouble finding statistics is that there kind of is none? Or at least no national statistics. Medicare has some, but they also include misscarriages, etc, in their numbers. Other sources don't make their numbers public, for god knows what reason.

WA seems to release the most information:

In 2005 the average age was 26.4
<15 = 0.5%
15-19 = 18.5%
20-24 = 28.9%
25-29 = 19.4%
30-34 = 15.9%

I'm neither. *rebel* No really, I think it depends on the situation. Yeah, I can't generalize and label my beliefs...there's too many good points on both sides. But since we live in a society where we have to, I'd have to say pro-choice, because the government shouldn't have the choice to take away the individual choices that people make. As sad as it sounds, already living humans' rights to make decisions are more important than unborn babies since they can't make decisions yet.

Just gonna toss in a reminder that the slut-shaming argument is not cool (Inshallah).

It is the responsibility of both partners to use contraception, and any ensuing pregnancy was caused by both partners.

Anyone who doesn't understand that, please keep it in your pants.

Are you pro-choice because if the situation ever happened to you, you'd feel less guilty about it knowing that in your mind you had done the "right" thing? I can put my hands up and say I wasn't aware that most abortions happen to woman in their late 30's, but that still doesn't excuse them for not practicing safe sex. I mean, you did say "Half of woman who get abortions report using contraception", but that's almost as if you know what you're speaking about. Seriously, where'd you read that? A pro-choice website? Don't base all of your facts on what you read on a pro-choice website because it's just going to come across as a bit too one-sided. After all, do anti-choice sites warn you that if you went ahead with an abortion, you could be emotionally scared for the rest of your life? Do they warn you that you might be racked with guilt and forever feel disgusted with yourself? No. It tells you exactly what a woman who's looking to have an abortion would like to hear. And no, I'm not anti-choice. I'm pro-life. I don't believe in killing "mistakes".




I'm not trying to "shame sluts", but from my experience and from what I've seen, it's always been some "slut" that's been knocked up one night and forgot to use protection. A girl I used to know had an abortion because she was too scared to bring a baby into the world without a father, and she felt so bad about it, she killed herself. I guess that just hit home for me. I just don't think a lot of girls/woman realise just how awful you may feel afterwards. It's a big risk for some people.

Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. It means giving the woman a chance to make up their own mind,
and most of them provide the facts, not opinions. Pro-life sites, on the other hand, are usually extremely biased.

Yes, pro-choice sites usually give warning of the potential emotional effects, etc., and those same warnings are given at the hospital/clinic when you go in. It's not like going to get a tooth pulled. You have to have evaluations and are made to speak to a cousellor before they will perform the abortion.



Pro-life, by definition is anti-choice. It is the belief that that a developing feotus has more right to live than the woman carrying it does to bodily autonomy, ie., she does not have a choice.



That is sad, but just because she made the wrong decision does not mean that the option should not be available to other women. I have (distantly) known women who have decided to keep the baby, and have commited suicide because they couldn't cope. The emotional consequences of abortion are not necessarily more that those of deciding not to abort.

i don't know if considering abortion as a last resort is really abuse of the system.
personally, i think if girls considered abortion as a first choice above anything else, because it's "easier", then it would be technically abusing the system.
i can understand your view on it though

p.s this thread should be deleted.

Why delete the thread? This is a healthy debate so far.

Actually, statistics tend to be quite alike because using made-up statistics is, um, very transparent lying that can be proven by comparing them to official stats, which usually exist. If you check them, you will see "half of women" is about right. It's the interpretation that is different and while a pro-choice site may say "half of women use contraception", a pro-life site may say "half of the women don't use contraception", and both may group different info together to support their argument and such, but I'm sure you know that.


As opposed to 9 months of pregnancy, and 18 years of taking care of a child, which tends to be very easy on your psyche? Feeling guilty because you let this happen to you? Feeling deprived of a better life simply because your contraceptives didn't work like the box said? Or perhaps the feeling of guilt years after you've given the baby away to be adopted?
Ideally, there would be no unwanted pregnancies, and all babies would be brought into the world by loving parents, but sadly, it doesn't always, or perhaps almost never, work out that way. None of the options are ideal, and there is no option that would work for all women. There are women that decide to keep the child and do their hardest to make it work; there are some that leave them on doorsteps; and there are some that seek abortion. The choice isn't an easy one to make, and it has to be done with a lot of thought - but that's exactly why we need to offer all the possibilities. Some might not feel comfortable with having an abortion, but that doesn't mean they're entitled to strip that right away from all women.

*sigh* Why are all my msg boards flairing this argument up?

It's so tiring having to deal with the same old straw man arguments over and over and over again...

It's a shame people don't do much research on it...it's a really fascinating history, the abortion issue. Like Victorian women were more liberal about this than a lot of women these days, it's mind blowing.

Wait a few days and it'll slip down the list just like the religion one did and the death penalty one did, and like the euthanasia one did. Let's just shrug synchronously and wait.

and then everyone can get back to posting posts made purely of smilies and all order will be restored

personally i think abortion is fine. i can deal with the pro-life people, but sometimes the really extreme ones PISS ME OFF. extreme anything pisses me off though. like i think it's good that everyone has an opinion, but if it's your body you should be able to decide whether you want a baby or not, not some asshole that is like OMG ABORTION = MURDER. that said, i am not attacking pro-lifers on here. that is just my opinion. which probably doesn't count because i didn't use proper punctuation OH NO.

& yes mk, hopefully this topic will slip away. best delete it now. everyone run to the hot guys thread to post pics of male models and guys whose balls haven't dropped yet. what a bunch of foxes.

now i wait for your clever response. i am on da edge of my seat.

i read in the other thread that you're a female, yet your location says you are jacking off, i am curious as too how this can be?

^

I don't want to get to personal here but I got a Abortion when i was 17 due to sexual assault, i have no problem with it i just want everyone to make the right choice. i know its a hard choice sometimes.

it's ironic that you seem to think people are entitled to their own opinion, yet when i state the fact that i think this thread should be deleted (which is infact, an opinion) you get defensive and resort to cheap sarcasm and childish behaviour.

In that case we should close any thread where people are disagreeing, because it happens in almost every argument.

annie do you get off on talking to other people like they're idiots.

It's strange how people that are generally thick don't have a very thick skin. It boggles the mind, that does.

That's not what I mean. I just think this particular debate/discussion/whatever really doesnt have much of a place here. Obviously other people disagree, or this thread wouldn't still be here. Thats just what I think, yeah?



sure

Fair enough. I wasn't having a go, I was kind of agreeing.

About the straw man arguments, not that the discussion shouldn't be here.

I think women should have the right to choose. If, when I graduate, I decide to specialise in gynaecology/obstetrics, I will perform abortions if that is what the woman thinks is best. I've spent a few weeks working in hospitals in regional NSW and have been present in some consultations where a woman has asked for an abortion. In the cases I have seen the women already has children and cannot afford any more or else they have physically abusive partners and do not want to bring a child into that environment. I admit that my experience has been very limited so far (just 5 weeks on practical), but from what I've seen women do not have abortions on a 'whim'. It is a difficult decision that women take seriously.
There have been studies about the emotional effects on women who have had or been refused an abortion. Studies have found that the long term psychological effects on women who have had an abortion are mild. In fact, depression scores taken 3 months after abortion showed improvement compared to pre-abortion. They found that only 7% of women continue to feel guilt and 4% regretted the abortion 18 months later. For the overwhelming majority of women who have abortions, their mental health improved.
Other studies have looked at kids whose parents had been refused abortions. 68 children whose mothers were refused abortion were compared with a similar group of controls with a 21 year follow-up. Of the unwanted children, 19% were placed with foster parents, 28% attended psychiatric clinics, 18% had been registered with child welfare for delinquency or abuse and 8% had criminal records. All these results were in great excess of the wanted children. It has been found that the effects on children for whom abortion was denied were long lasting and negative.
The effects of a woman being refused an abortion for an unwanted pregnancy are not only negative for the woman, but also on the child. This is why I think women should have the right to choose.

Referenced review:
Dagg P (1991) ‘The Psychological Sequelae of Therapeutic Abortion – Denied and Completed’. American Journal of Psychiatry 148: 578-85

All I can say is - Good on ya.

*applause, applause*

I was always 100 % pro-abortion until in biology class our teachers brought fetuses from different stages of the development.

I thought I was really okay with it but when I held one of theses glasses in my hands and had look at these eyes, the skin and the very... not humanness, because it looked more like an alien, but it looked too much like a living thing. And to think this could have become a human being.

Obviously, this is not a good reason to turn my whole view around (can you turn around a view?) but it did make me feel less sure about it. I'm still pro-abortion. I think it's every mother's choice. Just like having a child and being an awful mother is. Which is still worse in my eyes.